Also, it needs to be taken into account that many Gypsies find it difficult to sit indoors around a table in a meeting. People need to get outside of the meeting room to consult with Gypsies and Travellers. Meetings often seem intimidating and unwelcoming and people need to remember that many Gypsies can’t read or write and so find it difficult to understand complex, academic questions.

Emily Clark, Co-founder, Society for the Promotion and Advancement of Romany Culture (SPARC):
It is important to keep the language simple as it often seems that non-Gypsies are speaking a different language.

Sal Buckler
The idea of having a number of different representatives from around the country seems sensible. It is indeed very important to go to visit groups rather than expecting them to attend formal meetings in alien and unwelcoming buildings. It might be important to meet with women separately as men often have different issues to raise which can obscure the views of women.

Seema Patel, Community Development Team 
Government Office North East (GO-NE)
Is there a clear definition of what a Gypsy is? There seem to be a number of different groups and tribes – are they all Romany?

Sylvia Dunn
There are numbers of different tribes which have their own languages – for instance Irish Travellers are not the same as English Romany Gypsies. But they all share the same culture.

Unknown contributor
Do young people also need a separate voice like the women?

Sal Buckler
Because of the issues outlined above there are difficulties associated with working direct with young Gypsies and Travellers. One of the main problems is that workers are often viewed with suspicion and distrust and so will find it difficult to actually work with the young people at all, you need to be careful not to ask too many questions and be prepared to take things slowly. You also need to be prepared to work with parents and other older family members, not simply with the young people.

Jaqueline Robson, Children’s Rights Worker, 
CNE/Gateshead Children’s Fund
This has been the experience in Gateshead where trust has been built up over a long period of time so that now children are allowed to go off site – it takes time but it works. The approach is one of not asking too many questions which gives rise to suspicion and instead being ready to answer all the questions that were being asked of you.

Colin Clark, Lecturer, Sociology and Romani Studies, 
University of Newcastle
Openness, time and trust are essential. In the mainstream culture we deal with children directly; when working with Gypsies it is important to start with parents and the family group. This approach has been shown to work in Newcastle.

Emily Clark
Even adult Gypsies feel uncomfortable at meetings, they are intimidated by the setting of the meeting and by the language used. What is needed are simple, informal meetings and everyday, familiar language. This is even more important when working with young Gypsies and Travellers. Often you will find that people listen so that they can tell you what you want to hear – the aim is to be left alone, in peace. What is needed is funding for community development, especially for young people so that they can learn how to work for their own community as they will understand more about what is going on.

Sal Buckler
The problem with mainstream funding and projects at the moment is that usually they are based on decisions made by one person visiting a site once and then making a decision. This is not always the case as we can see from the work going on in Gateshead and Newcastle, for instance, but it is still the most common approach.

Emily Clark
The money should go direct to the community it is intended for – they are the ones who best know what is needed and how to provide it.

Elaine Bates, Development Worker, Gypsy and Traveller Project, Hull
In Hull the problem seems to be that young people want to be involved in the community development projects, but the elders don’t want them to, they make it difficult for the young people so that eventually they fall away.

Emily Clark
They probably wanted them to do some chores – it is important to recognise that young Gypsies and Travellers are expected to work and it is important that any activities don’t get in the way of that. But there is a need to get youngsters talking freely away from their parents.

Sylvia Dunn
All too often there are meetings that are set up, you go along and then that’s all you hear of it – nothing seems to happen.

Amy Gibbs, Chair, NCW Northern Region
There is a similarity in many women’s experiences – very often it would be that women would find themselves the only woman at a meeting and it was intimidating. The only way to change that is to keep going to the meetings so that gradually you get used to them.

PROVISION OF SITES FOR GYPSIES AND TRAVELLERS

Paula Craddock is senior planning officer with Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council, Louise Harding is Neighbourhood Housing Manager with Coast and Country Housing – she has had responsibility for overseeing the management of the official Travellers site in South Bank. Both Paula and Louise are members of the Gypsy and Traveller Working Party in Redcar and Cleveland Council and both were fully involved in consulting with the Gypsy and Traveller community regarding their needs for site provision.

Paula and Louise split their presentation with Paula talking specifically about the different types of Travellers site and Louise then talking about her experiences managing a site.

Permanent Residential Sites
These have a hard surface and an access road. There are amenity units for each pitch; provision for water, electricity, sewerage and refuse collection. There is on-site lighting and sometimes work areas might be provided.

Such sites have clearly defined boundaries, both around each pitch and around the site as a whole.

Such sites are intended for a reasonably settled community which spends the majority of the year on the one site and returns there after short breaks of seasonal travelling.

Permanent Transit Sites
These also have a hard surface and an access road. There is also on-site lighting and there are clearly defined boundaries as for a permanent residential site.  The water supply is located centrally as is a sewerage disposal point or a chemical toilet emptying point and a waste water and refuse disposal point.

These sites are intended for occupants who are passing through an area, they may stay for days or weeks or even months but they are not expected to form a more established and settled community as above.

Temporary Stopping Sites
These can be established for a few weeks or a few months, it has a drained and stable surface, good access, a water supply, sewerage and refuse disposal. An important point about such a site is that it is not a permanent fixture in the landscape.

The new, official description of such a site is an ‘area of toleration.’

It was noted that this term is patronising, insensitive and offensive – as many Gypsies point out – you tolerate dogs, not people.

Unauthorised Encampments
These are common in the Redcar and Cleveland area. These sites are always associated with dumping rubbish but evidence suggests that other, non-Gypsy, people take advantage of the presence of Gypsies to fly-tip their own rubbish.

Having outlined the various types of site Paula then described the situation in South Bank. There is a permanent residential site in South Bank called ‘The Haven.’   The Haven was carefully designed following a consultation process which involved meeting with members of the local community and also visiting sites elsewhere in the country to see what had worked and what hadn’t. Despite this the site was unsuccessful.

Possible reasons for the site’s lack of success were suggested:

(a)     three items were specifically excluded from the grant; work areas, play areas and areas for animals. All these represent areas of great importance for the Gypsies and Travellers who were expected to use the site and their absence from the site may have made it considerably less attractive.

(b)     Issues regarding the make-up of the Gypsy Traveller population became apparent, including the existence of different cultural groups with different lifestyles and which had associated different needs as regards site provision.

(c)     Social and cultural issues became apparent which were neither known nor foreseen at the time. These issues included tension from local residents, businesses, landowners and land users not realising the different cultural groups and the reluctance of Gypsies to move onto the site from an unauthorised encampment. This then led to tension, then to vandalism until the site had to close. It was then used as a place to dump rubbish by non-Gypsies. 

In response to continuing difficulties regarding the provision of sites for Gypsies and Travellers Redcar and Cleveland Borough set up the Gypsy & Traveller Working Party. A pilot agreement was used in an Area of Toleration (see above) and it seemed as if things were moving forward.  Unfortunately local press coverage stirred up local resentment resulting in a total breakdown in an already fragile situation.

At this point Paula handed over to Louise:

Louise described how the official site, ‘The Haven,’ reopened in September 2000 and a new warden was appointed in November 2000. The warden was selected in part on the recommendations of the local Gypsy Traveller community who were expected to use the site.

Louise has had experience working in housing for over 20 years, however she had had no experience of working with the Gypsy Traveller community and responsibility for overseeing the management of the site was added to her workload without any relevant experience or training.

As Paula had mentioned the Gypsy Traveller community is not a homogeneous group and at the time Redcar and Cleveland had a mix of cultures in unauthorised encampments spread across the borough. The original idea behind the site was that all these could be contained on one site – but this had turned out to be unworkable. Following discussions in the Gypsy & Traveller working party it was agreed that the best way forward was to go and consult with the families. It was also recognised that it was necessary to go to the people to be consulted, rather than expect them to come to the council. The consultation showed that Gypsy Travellers wanted smaller sites – The Haven was a large site with 27 pitches – with work areas and grazing for horses.

As a result of the consultation the site was redesigned taking into consideration the needs of the Gypsy Traveller community. It was closed in May 2002 for refurbishment – at the time of the conference there were some families living on the site by agreement. It was intended that it would reopen fully in January 2003.

It was a major realisation for the council that if people didn’t like what they were provided with they would simply move away. This also meant that a different approach to the management of the site was needed – it can’t be managed as if it was a housing estate. Site managers and owners (for instance local authorities) need to understand that rules can’t simply be imposed upon people and that groups of people who don’t get on can’t be expected to mix together on a single site.

There were also other cultural issues to take into account such as the gender roles in Gypsy Travelling communities. There is a need to speak to women separately. Overall you need to build the trust and the confidence of Gypsies and Travellers to be able to do anything.

As regards the future of the site, it will hopefully be refurbished and house a fairly settled community with resident involvement in the management. There is still an outstanding need for a transit site which will take some of the pressure off the permanent site and so help it to work. This has been recognised by the council but still needs to be actioned. One of the problems concerning the provision of a transit site is a lack of suitable locations. It is very difficult to find a location that is acceptable to all parties concerned; the Council, residents, the business community and the Gypsies and Travellers. There are also political pressures as councillors feel a need to speak on behalf of electors (and Gypsies and Travellers are often not regarded as electors, or at least as a relatively insignificant proportion of the electorate).

There is a new round of bidding due to start in January 2003 and transit and stopping-places are included in the funding at last – it may be possible for the council to resolve some of their problems through taking advantage of this.

COMMENTS, QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES

Duncan, co-ordinator Middlesbrough Consortium 
Travellers Education Service
Where do guidelines come from – and who monitors them – concerning the provision of facilities on sites?

Colin Clark
Under the DETR (Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions) model sites were envisaged on which certain facilities would be provided as standard. There would be specific types of location preferred and so on. Responsibility has now gone to ODPM (Office of the Deputy Prime Minister) and everything seems to be in a state of confusion and uncertainty.

Sal Buckler
Plus there are no legal requirements for provision of facilities either on sites or near to sites. All there is is a preference.

Colin Clark
Just as on an ordinary housing estate there can be no law about how close each house is to a school or a medical centre, etc. However the law preventing provision of work areas has now been repealed and that is very helpful

Sylvia Dunn
One of the things we want are proper Tenancy Agreements, not Licences – is this ever discussed? As things stand at the moment we have no protection or redress against eviction

Louise Harding
It has never been mentioned by any party while I’ve been involved in the management and design of the site.

Sylvia Dunn
The change to Tenancy Agreements has been done on 1 site in London and it seems to work well.

Unknown
You have mentioned ‘features to avoid on sites’ – has any move been made to ensure these features are dealt with?

Louise Harding
Some demolition of redundant amenity blocks has been carried out. Also a Portacabin has been bought and will be situated centrally on the site and have a play area outside it. By being placed centrally it will be overlooked by all the pitches so it will be safe for children. The plans for the site have been created after a very useful consultation exercise and it will be smaller and more settled without the disturbance of families moving through.

OVERVIEW OF DURHAM AND DARLINGTON EDUCATION SERVICE FOR TRAVELLER CHILDREN :  Sue Green

Sue Green is Advisor and Support Teacher for Durham and Darlington Travellers Education Service. She has just finished her first year working for the service – work which she was inspired to move towards some years ago by Fran Duncan.

The Durham and Darlington Education Service for Traveller Children (DDESTC) has 3 teams of people: 1) the Early years team consisting of 3 people, 2) the Primary team consisting of 4 people, 3) the Secondary team, consisting of 2 people, plus there are 2 Specialist Education Officers whose role is to support the others and to work to make education more accessible. The work of the Specialist Education Officers included advising on bus passes, travel, uniforms and so on. There is also a mobile classroom which is taken onto the sites.

The total number of children that come within the remit of DDESTC is 839, these are aged between 2 and 16, although some children are helped beyond statutory school leaving age. Of these, 702 are given support of some kind.

The purpose of the organisation is very broad and is unlike any other sector of education. The work must begin by building trust and understanding the culture of Gypsies. There are two main focuses for the work:  Direct Pupil Focus and School Relations Improvement.

Direct Pupil Focus.  
Here the service is especially concerned with those who have gaps in their education. Travellers often need to be away during the  summer and return in October well after the new term has begun. For these pupils there is a need to build bridges so that they are not unduly hampered by missing regular chunks of their education. Often schools may claim to have an ‘open door’ policy – but this is easier to say than to do and it needs support to make it work. It isn’t as simple as allowing Traveller children to attend to school when they are in the area. 

Support for those with gaps in their education is mainly for numeracy and literacy as this is what matters most to parents. A special room can offer drop-in help for homework and so on. It is difficult to do homework and carry out research assignments in a crowded trailer on a site.

The mobile classroom is used on unauthorised sites, fairs and circuses. It is for all children aged from 3 – 16. Some bring work packs from their base schools (the schools they are normally registered with when not travelling). Others bring nothing and have to be assessed and given appropriate work.

School Relations Improvement 
This is especially important at secondary level where there is a lack of access partly due to barriers created by schools and the education system as a whole. There is a need to be flexible – an example of the kind of situations that need to be taken into account include the case of two Year 11 boys who were due to take their GCSEs. They were allowed to work to a reduced timetable and carry out other work with their father and uncle as work experience. It is difficult to achieve such agreements and support is needed from the management team of the school in question. Work in this area also takes into account legal directives such as those which emerged from the MacPherson Report regarding race equality.

An example of good practice can be found in one Darlington Secondary School which is excellent; it is flexible, respects differences in culture, works with parents and generally bends over backwards to help.

A bid has been put forward to refurbish one of the rooms in the school to provide a base from which to help young Gypsy and Traveller pupils. We are working with the school to raise the awareness of staff about the culture and history of the Gypsies. ‘Citizenship’ has been introduced onto the curriculum and it is expected that this will provide a useful route through which to teach about Traveller culture. Our aim is to develop independent learning, a system which can travel with the pupils as they travel. Distance learning is already used at all levels.

Unusually Gypsies are highly regarded in this school and there is great kudos that comes along with being a Gypsy. There is an integration of teaching Gypsy history along with teaching more mainstream history. For instance, 3 million Gypsies were killed in the holocaust, and it was Tudor legislation that began the persecution of the Gypsies here in England – both of these points are now included in the curriculum of the school. Appleby horse fair is celebrated in the school and a genuine interest in Gypsy history and culture has been built up amongst the non-Gypsies in the school.

DDESTC along with other education authorities in the North East is carrying out a research project about secondary education, consulting both parents and children about their experiences of school. It is a huge project which is still growing and it gives a rare chance for the voice of Travellers to be listened to. There is a degree of conflict between the expectations of the education system which stipulates that children of a certain age must attend school and Traveller culture which emphasises different kinds of learning and education. To simply lay down the law is not helpful, what is needed is a more co-operative way forward which will acknowledge the various needs of all parties.

A meeting with a senior government minister has been arranged and data from the research and consultation will be passed on and discussed.

Traveller Education groups across the country need to co-ordinate more to improve continuity in education provision for their pupils.

There also needs to be more recognition amongst policy makers that schools are affected by school league tables which include information about both results and attendance. Poor attendance figures trigger an OFSTED inspection, however Traveller children, once enrolled, have to stay on roll no matter how little time their family stays in the area. This raises clear conflicts between the needs of the school and the needs of the Travellers and it also has clear implications regarding the inclusion of Traveller children and the willingness of schools to take Traveller children on roll.

COMMENTS, QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES

Mary de Wardt, Chairman NCW Great Ayton
Are any parents worried about the education system taking Gypsy children away from their own culture.

Sylvia Dunn
Personally I was never worried about this, I insisted my children went to school as I don’t think there is a chance of them having a good future without an education. However they still have the full Gypsy culture at home so I wasn’t worried about them losing that.

Emily Clark
There’s no need to be worried about that, your culture won’t be lost in school

Sal Buckler
What some parents are worried about is the values of the culture that their children are exposed to when they go to school. There is a concern that they are exposed to inappropriate attitudes, for instance towards sex education and drugs. Many parents don’t want their children to be exposed to the dangers of non Gypsy culture and so would prefer to keep them at home.

Sue Green
Some schools are aware of the cultural difficulties that people from Gypsy Traveller culture have with some activities such as swimming and sport. Their worries are mainly those of any worried parent concerned about their child being exposed to bad influences as teenagers in any school.

Fran Duncan
Why do so many Gypsy children stop going to school after the primary stage?

Sylvia Dunn
The short answer is because of puberty and sex education. Gypsies don’t approve of sex education, we believe that what the Gorja (non-Gypsy) world has with 11 year old girls becoming mothers is the result of sex education policies. Gypsies like to keep their children safe and that means keeping them with their parents. Girls are not kept at home to do the housework as many people think, they are kept at home because schools are mixed and they teach sex education. In the end it has to be an individual choice whether you send your children to school or not – my sisters didn’t send their children to school and they thought I must have wanted to get rid of mine because I did send them.

Sue Green
My sons have just returned from travelling abroad and they have had a wonderful education as a result. There is no need to worry about Gypsy children missing out because they travel instead of going to school.

Sylvia Dunn
I have great faith in ‘bits of paper’ (i.e. qualifications) – I thought they would help my children integrate and succeed. In fact they used to be ostracised; I myself was caned at school when I was 6. After that my mother wouldn’t let me go back, as a result I was unable to read or write until I was 60 years old. I wanted to bring up my own children so that they could avoid that handicap.

DISCUSSION ON 'COMMUNITY EXPERIENCES' 
LED BY SYLVIA DUNN, FOUNDER OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GYPSY WOMEN

A Gypsy woman is very much like any other woman, what she wants is to bring up her family, feed them and teach them to be adult members of their community. In many ways our hopes and aspirations are the same – for instance my boy has got a mortgage.

What we want is permanent sites, places where we can visit and work for 6 months or so. For instance my parents used to return every year to a field in Watford. We used to travel and live in wagons and tents – the tents used to be like the Arabian ones. But times have moved on and we can’t go on like that and we have to accept some control from the local authorities.

Gypsies still settle their own disputes by fist-fights watched by the rest of the family or community. But we don’t declare war on anyone else. Having said that we will join the army of our country and fight and win medals – my own father and brother served in this county’s army in the 2 world wars. So I ask you, 'What more do you want from us?'

Here are some of the problems we face:

• We need help to get the right sort of sites. We have been refused entry to meetings in the past – residents’ meetings where people were protesting about a new site. If we aren’t allowed in to such meetings how can we put our point of view? We are able to persuade some people at such meetings and in the past I have been up talking ‘til past midnight.

• There was one case where a woman bought her own land and was turned off it within 12 hours! It took her six years to get a license – and a series of prosecutions and fines. At one point she needed to appeal but she couldn’t afford a lawyer. A friend managed to find her a lawyer who would do it for free – normally it would have cost £4000. Finally she got a settlement – but it only lasts for her lifetime. Her daughter is 32, she looks after her mum and supports her but she can be turned off the land when her mother dies.

• Another case I have heard of involves a woman who is registered disabled. Her legs were badly injured when she stepped in front of her two year old daughter when the little girl got into a go-kart and accidentally set it going. She needed 14 operations. Her husband managed to get a life license for her but she would have been treated like a heroine if she had been a gorja.

• It’s a terrible strain on people – we can’t get licenses but it’s illegal to stop on the roadside. We are facing eviction daily.

• Another time 500 Gypsies were run out of Lincoln from an illegal site. They were chased until they were over the border – where they set up another illegal site. The local newspaper was full of how it had been a ‘successful operation’ and how exhausted the police were! Never mind how exhausted the Gypsies were.

• Another girl, called Clara, was about to go to college and she was very excited – until she found she couldn’t enrol because she didn’t have a permanent address – fortunately the law has now been changed regarding this.

• Also, funding is very difficult for Gypsy organisations to come by – we are treated as sub-human, as not worth it.

• My daughter-in-law recently had to fill in forms which asked her about her ethnicity. I advised her to tick ‘I do not wish to disclose’ – I am proud to be a Gypsy but it’s dangerous to admit it officially – you never know when they might use that information against you.

• Gypsies don’t like to have walls and fences round them – we feel comfortable in a field not a building.

At this point Sylvia opened up the session to questions and comments.

Sue Green
We are aware that children often feel claustrophobic in teaching buildings.

Sylvia Dunn
Yes, if you don’t take that into consideration then you aren’t thinking of us at all. But it’s difficult for us to keep on living in fields. For instance a Gypsy man bought 14 acres of land. He had his trailer on the land and there were outbuildings. As he wanted to make a living he had to get a license which was refused ‘owing to the nature of the applicant.’ But why? He was actually a hard working farm lad looking after 50,000 pheasants and 50 cattle and making about £21,000 a year.

Another Gypsy – a wealthy man, a millionaire – wanted to establish sites all over the country but he couldn’t get permission. In fact he needed a license to live on his own land.

If we are evicted we join together for protection but being in a larger group makes us even more unwelcome. We are unwelcome everywhere and we just can’t win.

When I was refused a license I applied for a council house – I was living on an illegal site at the time. My application was refused on the grounds that I had made myself deliberately homeless!  Perhaps I should have gone to the newspapers. But we get confrontation everywhere – we might as well stay and fight on our own land.

Sue Green
Are the media supportive?

Sylvia Dunn
Some are. One reporter got interested but it was superficial. He concentrated on Gypsies helping themselves rather than on respectable people – like you people here today – wanting to help Gypsies.

John Usher, Head of Racist Crime and International Team 
Home Office Equality Unit
There is some progress being made, for instance following the recommendations that came out of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry; the Race Relations Act promotes racial equality and a Race Equality Strategy is being introduced. However, Gypsies are probably going to be left out of this. It is very difficult to consult with Gypsies effectively – it is even more difficult than with other ethnic groups, however we do want this legislation to be effective so we need to find a way round this.

Unknown questioner
It seems as though the toleration that there was in earlier times has gone. Why do you think this is?

Sylvia Dunn
It’s to do with work and the way we make a living. Scrap iron and so on isn’t needed so much these days. Also, in the past women used to work on the farms while the men went out to work, or in wartime when they went to fight. Now that farm work isn’t needed any more. After the war, when the men returned, the whole family was sent off the places where they had been staying. We are tolerated when we are needed. Also, now people see Gypsies living in modern trailers and they think they can fend for themselves, that they don’t need any help.

Mind you, often we want to do things for others. For instance my daughter is a florist, she bought some flowers and gave a flower arranging demonstration at a local old people’s home. She refused the fee they offered her as she wanted to give something back to the community.

Unknown questioner
Do planners refuse Gypsies when others would be allowed permission?

Sylvia Dunn
Oh yes, I have seen a big man called John – a famous Gypsy boxer – reduced to tears by planners and their decisions!

Colin Clark
According to official statistics there is only one group that is treated worse than Gypsies by planners – and that is takeaway owners!

Sylvia Dunn
There was a case when permission was granted for 152 holiday chalets on a piece of land. Permission had previously been refused when Gypsies wanted to buy the land to provide a site with 27 plots! After a fight the planners did eventually say that the group of Gypsies could have 18 licenses for plots, but they didn’t want to split the group up so they refused.

Colin Clark
At the moment the Traveller Law Reform Bill is on the table for consideration. It notes that £18 million is wasted each year on evictions etc. and that this money could instead be spent on sites. Only 200 acres are needed country-wide. In many cases it is a good idea to reduce the size of site provided it doesn’t mean a reduction in the overall number of pitches. A case in point is Newcastle which has no official sites – although it does have ‘areas of toleration’ – which is a terrible name.

Sylvia Dunn
The Government could learn something from the Gypsy culture of having strong families and a sense of social cohesion. But the Bill that is on the table is not likely to be implemented. We need groups that can lobby for us – but it is difficult for Gypsy groups to get funding. I once asked for funding of only £500 but I was refused. I no longer apply for funding because I am always refused.

Also, we should beware of listening to Gypsies who have moved into houses and then shout about what Gypsies want – they no longer practice their culture so they don’t necessarily know what Gypsies want.

Gypsies are good at money management – we could be trusted to make good use of the funding if only you would give it to us.

Unknown questioner
Local authorities are not applying for the funding that is available – it is undersubscribed. Why aren’t they applying for it?

Sylvia Dunn
Perhaps they don’t want to – for one reason or another!

Colin Clark
The funding available is only for refurbishment – you can’t refurbish what isn’t even built yet!

Unknown questioner
What is the usual rent for a pitch on a site?

Colin Clark
Generally about £75 – £100 per week

Emily Clark
My family has been on one site for 14 years. If that site is closed where are we supposed to go?

Sheila Mitchell, Housing Management Officer, 
Darlington Borough Council
Darlington has 2 sites which form part of a network of provision. One of the sites is ‘Honeypot Lane’ which has 45 – 50 pitches. We applied for a refurbishment grant – what we proposed was £450,000 to come from the council’s funds and £2 million from Government. We were just laughed at and told it was too high a proportion to ask for from the Government. Really we would need to spend £30,000 on design work to make a more realistic bid – but then that might still be refused and that would mean that all that ratepayers money had been wasted. It was Margaret Thatcher who changed the system – we need the 100% bid system back.

Paula Craddock
A similar situation happened in Redcar and Cleveland. The Council submitted a large bid after a community consultation exercise, as described earlier in our presentation. The bid failed. The following year the Council submitted a reduced bid only about half of which qualified for the refurbishment grant, of which 25% had to be provided by the Council. This left the Council also having to contribute the remaining half of the bid which did not qualify. This was more than the Council anticipated.

A new system is in place which does look like we could bid for 100% costs – but not enough time has been allowed to prepare bids and get them through the council systems so that they can be approved. The council simply cannot achieve what is expected within the time limit of 3 months and therefore this means that it is impossible for the council to bid

Heather Kopp, Traveller Liaison Officer, Race Equality Service
Wakefield
We had a similar problem with a bid to the Neighbourhood Renewal Fund. We were awarded £180,000 for the renewal of sites, but the money had to be spent very quickly. We are more likely to make mistakes if we have to rush things through without a proper consultation with the people who will be expected to use the sites. This makes it more likely we will waste money.

The grant, by the way, was awarded for security improvements and to provide community buildings. To qualify for the money you need to mention Travellers. 

Elaine Bates
Local Authorities could use that tactic more often and make other funding available if Travellers are mentioned in the bid.

Sal Buckler
Clearly there are two sides to this – on the one hand there are positive moves being made and a desire to involve Travellers and work with them to provide what they need. On the other hand the funding systems are clearly tortuous and unworkable which makes it extremely frustrating for those people on the ground who are trying to get something done.

Colin Clark
It’s ironic; Wales is conducting a national survey of Gypsies and their needs, Scotland did the same 2 years ago, Northern Ireland did it even earlier – but in England there is nothing, not even when it comes to racial exclusion. Nonetheless the Scottish enquiry is sitting on the shelf and nothing is being done about it.

TRAVELLER LAW REFORM BILL – EARLY DAY MOTION

Hilary Sillars opened the afternoon session by reading out the terms of the Early Day motion that was currently collecting signatures:

This House notes that Gypsies and Travellers are one of the most excluded groups of people in the country who experience the highest infant mortality rates, the lowest life expectancy, the worst accommodation provisions, the highest illiteracy rates, the most racist press coverage which lead to the most complaints to the Commission for Racial Equality; further notes that a humane society is defined by its treatment of groups such as Travellers who have a right to decent places to live, equal to that of the settled community; acknowledges that reported anti-social behaviour is a consequence of long term social exclusion that will not be reversed by harsher penalties but can be addressed by a responsible sites policy; urges the Government to prioritise initiatives to raise the social inclusion of the Traveller community and suggests that the Government introduces the Traveller Law Reform Bill as tabled in the last Parliamentary Session

After this, discussion groups were formed which provided an informal opportunity to discuss some of the issues raised by the morning’s speakers, to talk about some of the problems and also some potential solutions to problems that people have come up with in their everyday experiences. Each group was asked to take notes on their discussions and try to come up with some suggestions for ways forward which would then provide a basis for a feedback session at the end of the day.

Four discussion groups were formed:

Group 1

-        Delegates had a variety of different reasons for attending the day – most importantly they wanted to use the afternoon session to discuss their own experiences.

-        The focus of the discussions turned into an exploration of ideas surrounding ‘inclusion’ and whether this is actually a good thing or not.

-        Too often ‘inclusion’ is used as a word which is simply taken as meaning something good and desirable rather than looking at what is actually happening.

-        All too often ‘inclusion’ is referred to but what is happening is a process of attempted assimilation whereby Gypsies are being forced to become just like everyone else.

-        There seems to be a lack of tolerance of ‘otherness’ and this needs to be addressed.

-        Young people need to be included in community development work as do other members of the community.

-        Members of the community have access to ready-made networks which gives them an advantage when it comes to working with the communities.

-        The most important thing is that there should be better site provision – nothing else matters much if you haven’t got a safe and secure place to live.

Group 2

-        This group discussed issues about site provision and how policies as regards site provision and evictions affects people’s ability to access services and so on.

-        Examples were given – for instance, one family was evicted twice – each time a school place had been arranged for children but then the family couldn’t be found because they had had to move off the place where they were.

-        Also, families are often not taken onto doctors lists and find it difficult to get appointments at hospitals.

-        There is a clear lack of tolerance and a great deal of prejudice.

-        One of the main questions is; ‘how can a mobile community access static provisions?’ One answer is to make the provisions more user friendly – Yarm library provides a good example of this each Autumn when Yarm Fair is on.

-        Also, more mobile facilities are needed as is work to develop the skills and abilities that the community have invested in their own social networks – we need to work with them rather than against them.

Group 3

-        This group began with a run down of some of the problems faced by the Gypsy and Traveller community:

-        There is no provision for elderly Gypsies – for instance, mobile day units are not available.

-        Benefits for disabled people are not always readily available.

-        Also, services are not the same around the country which can cause problems when moving from one area to another

-        A problem with the education system is that independent learning is not seen as an acceptable equivalent to school based learning.

-        Schools should be responsible for providing learning materials – at the moment there is no clear and easily accessible guidance on what schools are expected to provide.

-        Traveller Education Services are told that they should encourage children to attend school, even when they are aware that it isn’t in the best interests of the child.

-        Gypsy sites should remain as sites, they shouldn’t have static dwellings built on them as houses might be sold later and then the land would be lost.

-        The racist and uninformed views of the general public are a problem – Gypsies are blamed for all kinds of things and local gorjas take advantage of this when Gypsies are in an area. Gypsies are victims of and fear crime as much as anyone and this should be remembered, rather than just assume that it is Gypsies who are committing crimes.

-        Must make a particular effort to pursue alternative consultation methods, including the possible use of alternative media such as photos, scrap books, interviews, videos and tape recordings etc. Also, any results or findings from consultations should be fed back to the communities in the most appropriate way – not just through the written word.

Group 4

-        It is a good idea to approach consultations with a list of possible options – this is less disappointing than having to continually refuse unrealistic requests.

-        Lots of other interest groups are able to shout louder than Gypsies – Gypsies do not articulate their needs enough.

-        There should be funding available to improve consultation with Gypsy and other Travelling communities – too much is based on short, one-off consultations. There needs to be more of a focus on longer term qualitative and participatory research. Proper consultation takes time – and people need to be aware that if results become visible – if something is done about the problems people have – then more results will follow.

-        There also needs to be less emphasis on questionnaires as these are nearly useless when working with Gypsies and Travellers. If quick results are needed then PRA (Participatory Rapid Appraisal) techniques are more useful than questionnaires.

-        Working with large groups does not generally seem to work as most people won’t be heard – they don’t want to speak up in a large group. Similarly one person cannot speak for all.

-        Also, whatever local government etc do it has to fit with the policies of central government and also has to achieve targets set by central government.

-        It isn’t always clear what is meant by race equality and when it comes to the Race Relations Amendment Act, which is supposed to re-prioritise policies and how they impact on race relations, there seems to be a gap at the start because communities are not involved.

-        Capacity building is important – both to make sure that communities are confident enough to represent their interests and to increase the ability of organisations to take racial and ethnic issues into consideration.

-        Any developments should allow for differences in life styles – for instance, current guidelines for ‘decent homes’ wouldn’t fit with a Gypsy lifestyle.

-        As mentioned earlier, £18 million is spent on evictions and so on and this would be better spent if positively identified and spent on site refurbishment or new sites.

-        Private sites should be encouraged.

-        Newspapers create problems we need somehow to persuade them to help break down barriers rather than maintain them by portraying Gypsies in a negative and stereotypical way.

-        Perhaps to help with this the police could specifically work on breaking down barriers as relationships are often difficult between Gypsy and Traveller communities and the police.

-        ‘Neighbourhood Champions’ could be funded, but it might be better to think about awarding money to the whole community rather than an individual.

-        Many service providers don’t seem to realise that Gypsies and Travellers are a ‘client group’ – for instance careers services don’t seem to recognise the needs and aspirations of young people from Gypsy backgrounds.

 CLOSING REMARKS